Divorce Advice, Guidebooks, and/or Attorney?
I've spent a few decades trying to make this work, and I am confident now that divorce is the right thing for us. I've covered all my bases. My husband seems surprisingly unperturbed by the idea, which is one more indication that I've really wasted my time here. We still have a few more years of school to deal with, so while we're working on transition, I'd like to make sure I'm covering my bases legally and financially, and doing right by the kids. If I were independently wealthy, I would have figured out how to do this years ago.
I'm not entirely sure what my husband is capable of, so I need to be able to remain anonymous for now. He's very resentful, and everything, of course, is all my fault, at least in his mind. We visited more than our fair share of therapists, and I finally recognized his pattern of "See? the therapist is trying to tell you there's something wrong with you, and you need to change, just like they said." (Not an actual quote but, sadly, not making that up, either.)
We don't need a therapist. I need excellent advice for how to protect myself and kids between now and whenever we finally do this, which could take a few years. I don't want to screw him over; I just prefer not to have to pay more than my fair share, if possible (although at this point I recognize that I may just lose more in the process, and God knows I won't be able to afford a decent home... not that we have a great home now).
A mediator is fine. I'm not interested in somebody who knows how to suck the other party dry. I could definitely see starting with a book or something (I should go look at Nolo Press right now!).
Ideally, someone can also give me excellent advice for how to make this as easy as possible for kids, one of whom is extremely sensitive. And I know that most kids, including my own, would greatly prefer if we just figure out how to stay together, but I can't make that work, not without feeling like I'm slowly dying--but I want to be there for the kids! I already feel bad enough about this. I assume it's better to wait until at least high school is done, although I also remember a friend of mine who felt completely let down when she learned that her parents were divorcing as soon as she went off to college. So there's no good way to do this that I'm aware of.
I suspect that my husband will be very happy to end it. Ideally, we can get along better if we're apart. I've certainly been doing my best to maintain a friendly stance with him, and I don't even bother to mention most of the crap he sends my way. I'm not perfect, so the sarcasm sometimes comes out of my mouth too, though. I realize too that kids will always love both parents regardless, so I also don't want to dump on them. Kind of a balance between "you're dad has treated me poorly, that's why we're splitting up," and the generic but unsatisfactory "we just believe we will get along better if we aren't together anymore." I don't even know how to negotiate holidays and the like. I'm not opposed to still doing things as a family. There's no other man for me now, but I'd like to be open to it in the future. (Don't know what his situation is, honestly, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that he's already halfway out the door with someone else. He's not a very honest person.)
Thank you all so much!
Parent Replies
I am 53 and my parents divorced when I was 20. Divorce is hard on the kids no matter what age they are. My three siblings and I are only now coming to terms with some issues, 33 years later. That being said, divorce may be the best solution for a difficult situation, and so the age of the kids should not be a factor in deciding when. Please don't talk badly about your ex-spouse to your kids even if you think you are right. Make sure you and your ex-spouse are on the same page in terms of raising your kids. Don't use your children as pawns. The best thing you and your ex-spouse can do for your kids is have a cordial relationship. If one of you remarries... well, that's a whole other topic.
Have the moderator give you my contact info- I think talking to someone who has been there will be helpful
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Getting Divorced Without Ruining Your Life by Sam Margulies is a good place to start. The book talks in depth about money and children, which are obv the two most fraught topics in divorce. When you're ready to start mediation and co-parenting counseling, I would recommend Dr. Tim Bigalke who is located in Berkeley. Don't let his messy office fool you, like it did me, he is extremely skilled at mediating and diffusing emotional tension in the room so you can move on and actually have the space to talk about the important things, like how to best parent your children going forward. His expertise does not go into finances much, so you may want to get a lawyer/mediator for financial advice, but don't be tempted to go down the court route (and it will be tempting, esp if you are the one with money to lose)! Give your all to mediation before traveling down the ruinous path of lawyers. I think lawyers can definitely have a healthy place in all this, but it's rare. I obviously don't know your situation in depth, but generally speaking, if you can get even some cooperation from your ex, keep working things out in mediation. It will definitely take some time and a lot of patience, car sobbing and "serenity now" chanting, but the amount of money and emotional energy you'll save by not using a lawyer is well well worth it. Best of luck to you, and my heart really goes out to you. It's terrible and horrific at first, but it can get better quickly if you have the right support, and I think Tim can be one valuable resource.
You might find what I've posted before on this topic in the archives, but as a starter, I recommend this Divorce Options workshop to learn about a wide range of ways to do this in a supportive and neutral setting (pretty cheap):
https://collaborativepracticeeastbay.com/explore-other-divorce-options/
Wow! I am pondering exactly the same thing! I have been counting down the years. Got to make it to 10, then another 10-15 for the children. I went jnto grief and started fantasizing about winning the lottery so I could just take the kids and go.Then I got to the Oh Hell No stage of kids be damned, no way will I waste another moment in this marriage. Now I am being pragmatic and trying to figure out what exactly it will take to be able to support myself and my kids on my own. That’s the kind of freedom I want. So first, I’m meeting a financial adviser who can walk me through the steps and help me crunch enough numbers to know whatI’ll need to make. I have been putting out feelers to find out how to morph my career into high gear to meet those marks and get a good guesstimate of the tine frame for getting there. And finally, I will eventually consult with a divorce atty to find out what strategy I will need to get out. Now, instead of 10-15 years, I think I can get it down to 3 or 4 years if I hit the ground running. Oddly enough my husband holds little sway. That light died years ago, so haven’t thought about what he’d do nor do I care, so I just prepare for worst case. Hope this helps!
My heart goes out to you. I am sorry you are going though this very hard time.
I empathize with you. My situation is different: after surviving in a deeply dysfunctional way for years and discussing divorce head on, my husband and I have decided to get to a healthier place first. I don't know if we'll stay together long-term or sever in a better way, but I'm grateful for change.
I want to share with you a few thoughts:
1. I started laying specific plans for short and long-term separation. In addition to working with an excellent individual therapist, I started figuring out options for work / finances, living situation (possible move out of state), talking with divorced friends, getting references for and interviewing lawyers. I felt calmer feeling I had some control over my future, and a path out even if exceedingly difficult. I considered the children, but put myself first thinking, if I can be ok, I'm better prepared to help them be ok.
2. I started giving myself "deadlines", and communicating to my husband in a calm and non-threatening way, if we cannot come together and work out a plan for "x", I have no choice but to do "y" - addressing immediate physical and mental heath concerns that could not continue. "Y" not being the big bomb of divorce, but, for example, taking one teen away for a period of time to give everyone a break from the intense stress. Interestingly, upon our return, my husband was finally able to work with me toward a long-term solution to a significant part of the stress in a meaningful way. We started working with an excellent relationship therapist who is helping immensely with our communication.
3. We worked with a family therapist. In speaking with the kids individually, both asked if divorce was imminent. We had never spoken about divorce with, or had huge blow-outs in front of them, but kids get what's going on. Anxiety runs high in both; they felt better having a facilitated, supportive, open forum to talk. They were less stressed about the idea of a divorce once they faced it as a real possibility. They also became more away of their parts in the family dynamics.
4. I want to share an anecdote of a friend, in a similar, but different situation. After years of a tumultuous home life, her highly sensitive, only child teen came to her and said that she didn't need to wait to divorce his dad, he would be fine with it now. She had never spoken to him about divorce, although she planned to do so once her teen left home. That was almost two years ago. Mother and son are in a much healthier place, looking forward to their future and whatever it may bring.
Takeaway:
Seek out supports to get in a healthier frame of mind. Therapists are often one of the critical supports, but they are not all created equally - seek out the best that work for you. Surround yourself with friends who can support you calmly without trying to solve your problems for you, and family members who are nonjudgmental.
Your teens likely know more than you think they know. If supported, will be ok if they have confidence they are loved and will be in a healthier place.
Consider reading "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work", whether you stay together or not.
Take care.
I've been talking with both mediators and lawyers to get the lay of the land. Mediators will give free 15 minute consultations, but it's usually a 45-1hr rate for lawyers. My impression is that mediators, because they're focused on being a neutral party, aren't really cut out to deal with narcissists and manipulators. They're strong on interpersonal skills but not always up to date on all aspects of family law.
If you anticipate any conflict with your spouse, I advise consulting an attorney as well as a mediator. I consulted with Hannah Sims, an aggressive litigator, hoping to get the straight story on likely outcomes if I ever went to court. She did just that, ended up advising me to go the mediation route, and gave me some strategic insights on how to handle my relationship with my coparent in order for me to reach my goals. She's Machiavellian, but I needed that reality check because I tend to be too earnest and invested in playing nice. I walked away feeling empowered and having a better sense of what I was navigating.