Teaching 4yo to be more pleasant to be around
I love my 4.5yo son, but he has a difficult personality a lot of the time. I don't know what I can reasonably expect from a 4yo. I know these might be totally typical of a strong-willed personality, but all the same, I want to work on this because if I let it go unchecked, I feel like no one will want to be around him. Some examples: 1) He does not acknowledge people with social niceties, despite the fact that we always model them. For instance, he won't even speak or look at his dad in the mornings or at pick-up even after his dad asks, "Good morning" or "How are you?", etc. A lot of times, he will flat out say, "I don't want you in here." 2) He always has an agenda and is opportunistic. For instance, over Thanksgiving, we had a fancy red box of chocolates. Everything that entire weekend became about that box of chocolates. He'd wake up, ignore everyone and just come to me and say, "I want chocolate." I would explain all the things about eating healthy, having breakfast, etc., and then he would say, "OK, but afterwards I get chocolate." This behavior is throughout the day because he is constantly trying to negotiate or wheedle something out of us (candy, TV, etc.). 3) He is very argumentative and ALWAYS has to be right. For example, we had this whole argument how it was "Saint Patrick's Day", not "Same Patrick's Day". He basically threw a tantrum and was screaming how it was the latter. But he will dwell on how wrong we all are and remind us of that throughout the day. 4) He is always competing with his little brother for attention. We feel we give them both a lot of attention and reassurances (I have read Siblings Without Rivalry), but somehow, it is never enough for him. He is also not affectionate, so while he wants to be showered with affection, he is not particularly "loving" back. I know it's OK to not be affectionate back, but he just seems to always want to be given things and not give back. Maybe I am worrying about very typical, age-appropriate behavior, which is fine - I just want to know what I can do as a parent to set him up to know how to be a good friend, kind, not a class-A jerk, etc.
Parent Replies
It sounds like you are having trouble dealing with your son's odd behaviors. I am a bit worried about how you are judging him and the use of the term "Class A jerk." When my son (who is on the autism spectrum) was four he did many things that are similar to those you describe. He was also very argumentative. We did not know he had ASD at that time, but I had a hunch he was not neurotypical. For example, the failure to greet people, the rigidity about how to say St. Patrick's Day, the tantrum, the fixation on the chocolate and the difficulties with reciprocity. These are very similar to the kinds of behaviors my son displayed at that age. The good news is that with social skills therapy, my son has eliminated/outgrown those behaviors and he is a very loving and polite young man. I encourage you to get an evaluation by a professional to find out what is going on with your son. He may need some supports around social skills, rigidity, and other issues.
Honestly I feel for your child. He seems like a typical 4/5 year old. You use some negative descriptibe words about him, " opportunistic." It might be that he's acting out based on the expectations and possible disappointment that is cast upon him. I've learned a lot from the FaceBook group called Visible Child - there's also a rich website with a ton of blogs that would be helpful. Their main tenant is to have appropriate expectations of children. Any time a parent is let down it's almost always due to their idea that their children should behave a certain way or be developmentally older. I encourage you to try to spend more quality time with your child without expectation. He needs connection without bias.
I'm sorry that you are dealing with this difficult situation. We had some similar traits in our older daughter (I remember my little one telling me I was absolutely wrong that the lyric from Frozen's "Let it Go" was not "the past is in the tast", and if there's something she wants and the answer is "no" she will just keep asking as if that will produce a better response) and I would suggest that you seek out child counseling or therapy for your son soon. Take a look at what your health insurance provides and try to find therapists that are covered by your insurance. We tried to do parent counseling to learn different parenting methods and while that could be effective, it's really difficult to work through this more or less alone. We worked with Parent's Place when we lived on the Peninsula, so I don't know who you should contact here in the East Bay, but I think there are a number of threads on child therapists in the BPN forums that you could search through. Good Luck!
I would look at the Neufeld Institute of online classes / reading materials. There are located in Vancouver BC, but the coursework is available to parents worldwide. Such a good resource for knowing about children's brain development, and connecting with the child which is so important regardless of behavior. Good luck
Have you thought about getting your child evaluated for autism or just a general psychiatric evaluation? If these behaviors are not being learned at home and especially with not acknowledging your presence or being loving back, I would be concerned there was a deeper rooted issue.
I suspect you’re going to get this same response from many folks, but you should have him tested - this sounds like possible ASD to me. All the behaviors you describe would be explained by this neurological difference. With the right diagnosis, you’ll be able to interact with him more appropriately, have realistic expectations, and help him find an accepting community.
My son had a lot of these tendencies. We actually got him into a social speech therapy group and it made a huge difference, mainly with his peers but I find he has also grown out of a lot of this as he gets more into school and matures. So guess all I can say is be patient but also firm on expectations around niceties, he will slowly pick up on them
Four-year-olds can be difficult, and you will need to pick your battles.
For example, you might choose to ignore the tantrum around "Same Patrick's Day".
Telling someone he doesn't want them around, IMHO, merits a response: "It hurts Dad's feelings when you say that; right, Dad?".
Some rude behaviors can be modified with appropriate teaching technique. Some may stem from anger, perhaps over the presence of the sibling in his life.
You might want to consider having your child evaluated by a developmental pediatrician. While he may grow out of some of the bad behaviors, the longer he persists in being un-likeable, the worse it will go for him socially.
I’m ashamed to admit I thought my first child was a jerk until we finally had him evaluated and found out he was on the spectrum. He was 13, I wish we had known sooner, there was so much misunderstanding and miscommunication that could have been avoided. I recommend a neuropsych evaluation: sounds like he is rigid, super-focused, and over-stimulated by typical human encounters….good for you for seeking help!
Your post reminded me of one I wrote years ago about my son! I wonder if your son has trouble w friends or teachers, or not? If he saves most of this stuff for family and is able to control himself out in the world, this may just be his personality! If he really has trouble interacting with others, I might take the next steps to get him evaluated.
We took our son to a couple psychologists.. to help him deal w anger and help us learn to cope. He was an exhausting kid - so stubborn, absolutely relentless when he wanted something, a class-A know-it-all. Mean to his brother, major temper tantrums when he didn’t get his way.
After everything we did, I believe time and maturity is what “worked”. He’s now a wonderful 15yr old with a great personality, sense of humor and good friends. He knows exactly what he wants, but can laugh at himself and we lovingly tease him about these aspects of his personality. Wishing u all the best!
I don't know how to respond to his not saying hello or good morning to his dad. Does he treat his father differently than he treats you? It may be something specific that underlies that behavior. I am not a therapist but I would stop negotiating over chocolate or St Patrick's day. The fact that you have extended discussions might make your son believe he can persuade you to give him his way. A simple, neutral toned "nope" to chocolate and then drop the topic. When he gets a fact wrong, have him check it out..."look it up." and say no more. He's only 4 1/2 - and he's bright enough. Maybe you shouldn't respond when he brings up the same topic? He has your full attention when you go on discussing health, eating habits, etc. Disengaging with him may be totally inadequate as a response if he has more deep seated problems. Good luck.
Think Social in Oakland with Shelly Hansen helped our son to improve his social thinking.
You don’t say if this is a new relational style for your son or if it’s just bothering you more lately. Some of what you have written sounds a lot like the type of inflexibility one might see with autism or ADHD or SPD. Is this behavior showing up in school, too, or just with you?
Hugs to you mom. 🤗 I can tell you're at your wits end and want to help. I hope you found what you're looking for here. Sending love and light.
Hello!
Sounds like you are struggling with some of your son's behaviors, we've had some similarish issues with our 4.5 year old son (like mini tantrums over his way being the right way and ours being the wrong way) and then we've had a bunch of different issues that are very much related to his being a "spirited"/strong willed kid. What has literally saved us was working with Rebecah Freeling at Wit's End Parenting. She's an amazing parenting coach who specializes in supporting families with spirited kids, and she really *likes* spirited kids which I think is important. She ran a preschool for 13 years and gained so much knowledge for how to work with children across a range of behaviors. Especially high energy kids, those with social difficulties, also hitting etc problems, defiant/oppositional kids, and also kids (like my kid) who can be really rigid and fixated on his routines.
In zoom (or phone, but I recommend zoom because you will miss visuals) meetings she will come up with specific tools for working with your child. When we stick with Rebecah's tools things go so much smoother in our household. When we let them slide things start going a little haywire.
Rebecah is also super smart and wise from years of experience. If you have what feels like a problem with your kid, but it's actually totally developmentally appropriate, she will tell you! (she's also funny which makes the meetings more enjoyable). And I personally know at least 4 other families who have worked with her and had great success. Some people meet with her with the kids there, and some parents meet with her without kid. For us we did without kid and that worked for us, but everyone's different...
So I'd recommend signing up for a free initial meeting with Rebecah where you can determine if it's a good fit for your situation!
https://witsendparenting.com/
Seems like you’ve gotten a lot of good responses already. Your sons behavior reminds me very much of my 4-year old’s behavior. And while there might be an opportunity to get him tested, what would it change? Besides therapy. Hopefully, you’d see him from a different angle, and with more empathy.
Children that age have very little control. Let him mispronounce a word. Let him feel he’s right. Make him feel the most awesome and smart person there is! In the real world he knows that he isn’t. Why did you have to be right in the example you mentioned?
If he doesn’t want to greet his dad (or anyone for that matter), don’t worry. Don’t force him, nothing good is coming out of forcing him. Instead, you can turn it into a game and it’s so much easier for a 4-year old to engage. And the connection is so much deeper because it’s genuine. His dad would love it, too.
Don’t have high expectations on a four year old. He’s still experimenting with social norms. Just let him be in whichever way he is. You can’t really change him anyway, but you can make him feel supported and loved the way he is, even if you wished he’d be nice and politer, etc.
With our four year old spirited son, if we want him to do something he doesn’t, we make it into a game. Like I mentioned with the greeting, but that can also work with the chocolates he was asking for. We often hide things he wants so we can find it later. And maybe draw a treasure map. That way, he feels he’s in control but ultimately he’s not eating the candy when you don’t want him to.
we also love the Facebook group visible child that someone mentioned. And the Unruffled podcast by Janet Lansbury.
good luck!
OP here- thank you for all your responses. It was what I needed. I will definitely look into some of these great resources you mentioned. Some answers to questions people have asked- it does appear to be at-home behavior as his preschool teachers sing his praises. As far as his attitude towards his dad- his dad is more strict, so that explains a lot of it. I love the idea of using games for connection. Thanks all for your support.