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Pre-K going horribly for almost 5 year old boy
Oct 2010
Our almost 5 year old is HATING pre-k. He is getting in a lot of trouble for being too wild and silly and then, when he gets in trouble, doing horribly with his anger (Shouting, some hitting/biting,etc). Now some of the behavior is bleeding into home-life. Thisweekend he was so intense and mad and saying ''you stupid Mommy'' and lots of mean stuff.
Nothing is going on at home that is bad... this has all started since he started school.
From my perspective, having sat in on class for about 8 hours on different days, is that the teachers don't engage the boys enough. They are getting SO wild and silly. I feel like the teachers are too interested in having them sit there and not do the things little boys want/need to do. I do know that he has to learn to sit still and be in class at some point, but that seems like a lot to ask of a bunch of 4/5 year olds to sit in Spanish and learn words.
We gave the teachers VERY specific instructions about our son. He needs lots of positive reinforcement and quick action before he gets himself in too much trouble with these boys. They seem to not be able/willing to do that. When I have sat in, I have seen so many lost opportunities to praise him and bond with him. He HATES school and just keeps saying that his school is ''not a place for me''. Any thoughts? rafi
Dear Rafi, I feel your and your son's pain. We just went through a similar situation with our son's kindergarten and are in the process of transferring him to a more boy-friendly, developmentally focused program. What you've described sounds like a bad fit for your family, and I strongly suggest searching for a pre-K that really understands and supports boys' developmental needs. You might try The Model School or Rockridge Little School...
Good luck! Boys aren't ''bad''--just energetic!
Hi, I have a boy of the same age and recently changed his preschool from a home daycare and somewhat more academic based, to a ''center'' type preschool where there was a lot more outside activity with a lot more room to run. My son had always been quite well behaved (never pushing or destructive)but when he reached 4 years old he seemed to need a lot more room to run and yell and be a boy, so to speak and his behavior went from being compliant and passive to mischevious and at times quite rambunctious, at school anyhow. So although we'd been happy with his daycare for over 3 years (he'd learned to read here and so much more), we realized that he'd outgrown it and that there was nothing wrong with our child's behavior, which I was really surprised and even hurt that the teacher who knew him for so long was trying to imply.He is thriving in his new placement, no behavior problems reported. They do classroom type work in the morning but have outside time before and after to ''get the wiggles out''. I guess what I'm trying to convey here is that it seems like the school may not be a good fit, even if you like the teachers and they seem to be trying everything. Feel free to email me back if you want to chat about the mysteries of 4 year old boys,LOL! biy
I think you should listen to your son. This school is not for him. He is telling you in every way he can. Lots of things stand out for me in what you have written. For one thing, 4/5 year olds should not be getting in trouble for being wild and silly. They should be given some time and space for acting wild at silly and redirected when necessary. Children this age should get in 'trouble' for aggressive behavior or disregarding safety rules but not for normal/ age appropriate behavior.
If the hitting, kicking and biting just started with the change in school setting I would guess that is the biggest problem and focus on finding his a better fit. If the aggression problems pre-date this school there may be other work to do as well. Feel free to get in touch if you would like more assistance in sorting this out. KF
Just wanted to put in a good word for Berkeley Hills Nursery School . I know from personal experience that this school works with children and families to meet the needs of each child. There are current openings in the 4-5 year old room. The program in play based and very aware of the energy that 4-5 year old boys (and girls!) have. The teachers' approach to the children is very hands on and they quite successfully engage the children in play, allow for creative exploration, and redirect behavior in a loving, yet firm manner. Check it out...it might be perfect for your son! Happy BHNS Parent
I didn't see your original post, but I have a very active boy who's now in first grade. When he was in pre-K, we were at the Child Education Center in Berkeley and it was so great because one of the two preK teachers is a man who totally understands boy energy. (The other teacher is a woman with an active son my son's age who understands boys, too.) There was a group of active boys in with my son and their teacher was so great with them, and there is lots of room to run around outside. My daughter is two and is at that school now so I know these preK teachers are still there. You may want to try them out: http://childeducationcenter.org/ Andi
3.5-year-old now hates preschool after a year of happy
Sept 2003
My 3.5 yr. old daughter has been happily attending preschool (Chatham) for about a year. She is smart, outgoing and friendly. About a month ago, we switched her schedule from 3 half-days to one half day and two full days.
Shortly after this switch, she has become very reluctant, and mostly refuses, to go to school at all. She cries every time we drop her off, and a couple of times this crying has persisted throughout the entire day.
The teachers are great; they hold her, comfort her, etc. But it has gotten to the point where if we even mention the word ''school'' she freaks out. She starts crying and chanting ''I don't want to go to school. Don't make me go to school''. Her sobs soon become uncontrollable fits (and this is just in the morning before we even get in the car!). I have spoken to the director of the school, who said she is just going through something and it will pass. In the meantime, I am at a loss of how to handle her when she gets this way. I tried to reason with her, ask her specifically what she doesn't like about school, but with no success.
My husband and I suspect the the 2 long days are just too much for her, plus there is a new teacher and many new kids. Maybe she just feels out of her element b/c of all these changes.
We have decided to change her schedule to 5 half-days per week, due to my husband's work hours (he works pt from home) and are hoping this will make things better. In the meantime, does anyone have advice on what we can do to make our daughter feel better about school, and get her to want to go again? I feel so bad for her, especially when she says things like ''Mommy, I don't want to cry at school, but I can't stop.'' On the other hand, we can't let her think its ok to throw fits every morning, so have had to give her time outs, which I feel bad for and end up driving to work in tears. Its just a very difficult situation.
Thanks in advance for your advice. worried mamma
This is a tough situation because you know your daughter liked the school before. I would ask your daughter first if she feels like things have changed at school. Maybe there is a new child that makes her very uncomfortable and the teachers just can't detect it. Crazy as it seems, I remember still the boy that made me feel afraid in ''nursery'' school - and that was 33 years ago! It sounds to me like more than just the new schedule. Follow your instincts if your daughter cannot articulate her fears. Maybe they will lead you to a different pre-school. Best of luck to you. I am sympathetic to your concerns. Anon.
I suggest you take a day and spend it with your child at preschool -- there may be some reason that is hard to see in discussion with the teachers that your child hates preschool -- conflict with another child, or some part of the day that isn't working for your child, or a less than sensitive adult. You might also consider skipping the time-outs and just making your daughter do what you need her to do -- i.e. dressing her yourself or carrying her to the car and buckling her in. It will convey the message that she needs to do what she's asked to do with natural consequences rather than punishment; and will also save time. After all, she is already fussy and miserable, and the goal is to train them to behave, not to hide their unhappiness. This part does get better as they get older -- by 5 or so they can get ready for something even if they don't want to do it. veteran of some rough mornings
I don't have much advice, just solidarity. I could have written this post myself about my daughter, who also turns 3 in the fall. I have so much guilt at preschool drop off each morning when she cries and tells me she doesn't want to go to school. But the teachers tell me as soon as I leave she is fine and has fun the rest of the day. When I ask her why she doesn't want to go she also tells me she just wants to stay home with Mommy and Daddy. Unfortunately we both work and so that's not an option for us. She's been in daycare/preschool since she was 1 and has been like this from the start. For what it's worth, we started her in a new preschool a few months ago with a better teacher/kid ratio and the same thing is happening, so it doesn't seem to be school specific. We follow a routine every morning and make sure to talk about what to expect each day, but it doesn't help. We tried giving her treats after school if she had a no cry day, but this stopped working and also felt unsustainable in the long run and like we were asking her to mask her emotions. So I'm not sure I have any advice other than that from what I read, some kids are just like this and will eventually grow out of it as the separation anxiety lessens. I hope that's the case! Hang in there!
This is such a hard stage. We went through it / are going through with all three of my kids, and the older two (now 4 and 6) both grew out of it between 3.5 and 4.5 years old. Our 2-year-old still screams his head off every day at drop-off, especially on Mondays. Similar story with the teachers saying they are all fine and happy a few minutes after drop-off. You might be right that your daughter wants more time with you, but also, transitions are just really tough for kids this age and drop-off is a big transition.
You could try changing schools but that would be a huge upheaval as well and not guaranteed to fix the problem. If your school offers ways for you to volunteer in or visit the classroom once or twice, that might be a good way to see for yourself if she is actually happy after she gets settled (which I'd bet that she is) - although of course there will be another meltdown when you leave after visiting. Also you could ask if the teachers could send photos - ours does this and it's nice to see them playing happily and engaged, especially after a tough drop-off.
Good luck and congratulations on your new baby!
My daughter went through something similar and she was at a wonderful (small) preschool. By the time it was time for TK she missed her preschool a lot and wanted to go back. I think it's a combination of separation anxiety and new sibling. We tried to have more one on one play or both parents with our oldest. It sounds funny to say to a baby but making a point to tell baby in front of sister "it's sister's turn with me" to show that you are really focusing on her. It will improve with time. I wouldn't change schools unless you think there is a problem with the care. She will likely have anxiety anywhere.
I think some kids are just like this - our pediatrician used to say "he's a smart kid, of course he'd rather be home with mom and dad!" He had rough drop-offs at preschool (and into elementary school), not always with tears (sometimes, though) and needed lots of structure and routine (read the book: The Kissing Hand) to separate from us, along with important transitional objects (taking a lovey, a favorite toy, etc). Sending you a big hug! They do grow out of it, eventually. I would just project so much love and confidence her way (even if you don't feel confident on the inside!) I don't think the specific school has anything to do with it - we got similar reports of happy days, tears ending a minute after we left, etc. Good luck! This too shall pass.
I did not experience this with my kids, but I was exactly like this as a child! It lasted throughout preschool and kindergarten, and then it kind of petered out in first grade. I just really wanted to be with my mom AT ALL TIMES, and the way that manifested was in me constantly telling my mom I didn't want to go to school, pretending I was sick, even actually making myself sick.(The school nurse sent me home from kindergarten multiple times with a 99-degree fever that immediately got better as soon as I got home; my mom swears I willed those fevers into being!) In general, though, once I was at school, I was fine there, fully participated in everything, made friends, etc. I grew up to be an excellent student.
The way my mom handled me during those years was to be firm about the fact that I had to go to school but to make small accommodations to soothe my worries or make sure I felt special and connected to her. So for instance, when I started kindergarten, I had to ride the school bus. I begged not to ride the bus, so my mom told me to get on the bus and go to the back and look out the back window. She drove along behind the bus and waved at me every time I looked out the window. I think this lasted maybe the first few weeks of the school year until I got used to the bus. She would also do small things to help me be aware she loved me during the school day... like she gave me things to carry in my pocket or told me to sing a particular song if I ever felt bad at school (honestly, I didn't! But her giving me something special to do that was just between her and me made me feel better.) When I was getting "sick" a lot, she colluded with the school nurse and my kindergarten teacher to give me "medicine" that was actually a piece of candy. She told me to carry it in my pocket and if I ever felt sick, I should try taking my special medicine from mom before going to school nurse's office. (This also totally worked! My first experience with the placebo effect! lol)
Have you ever read the book The Kissing Hand? My mom did lots of stuff like that, and for the most part it worked. Back then, where we lived, there was no option to switch schools.
Later on, as a parent at a preschool that welcomed parents to hang around for as long as necessary, I definitely watched certain kids go into hysterics at every single drop off and then the second their parents were out of sight, they were fine, even thriving. It was like a switch turning off. One teacher remarked to me that for certain kids, the drama is like a way of maintaining their attachment to their parents. (hoo-wee, lots to unpack there, but I get it.)
Good luck making your way through these times!
Some kiddos just need a good cry/tantrum at the start of the day to release anxiety and other big feelings. I would err on the side of encouraging the expression of big feelings and NOT rewarding her to hold the feelings in. Especially since it looks like she is doing a good job of regulating her feelings at school.
Believe me I know how hard it is to start the day with a toddler screaming, begging, miserable but it will pass if you make room for the feelings.
When she says, I don’t wanna go, you can say, it’s scary to leave home, no wonder you feel such big feelings, etc. (Don’t say anything to imply that her feelings are wrong or too big)
Good Luck!
We also recently had a second child, and I've had an uptick in morning shenanigans and meltdowns from my older kid. I think he just latches on to whatever gets the most attention from me / takes attention off his little sister and makes it his routine. I think this could be what is happening at your house, too, since it seems like your daughter enjoys school when she gets there.
Hi there, sorry you are having to go through this. It's really hard with kiddos this age and it must be heart breaking to see them cry. We did switch my now 3 year old (then 2 year old) to a smaller school (he was in a fairly large preschool). I moved him due to the high teacher turnaround and as he seemed to get "lost" in a large preschool setting. He didn't refuse going to school but he just looked pretty dazed when I dropped him off and picked him up. He is currently in a small 6-1 in home daycare/preschool where he gets a lot of attention. He seems to be thriving there. I do think the more intimate setting provided a loving container for my kiddo which allowed him to thrive. I felt like the larger preschool setting was just a little too sterile and removed of connection. At his current school he gets so excited to see his teacher and even asks to go on weekends (so we know it is a good sign she's a good fit). Not sure if you are in Oakland but she has an opening for a 2/3 year old at Hugs and Kisses Bilingual Daycare. I cant recommend her enough. She was previously a special needs teacher for preschoolers and she just has a loving touch.
Infant/Toddler/PreK teacher here with over 30 years experience. There are a number of factors going on here. 1. Is she picking up on your anxiety? Do you feel guilt? Children are very perceptive. 2. Preparation is key: tell her the night before she is going to school tomorrow. If she objects, just be matter of fact and incredulous, what do you mean you don't want to go? Everyone goes to school! Just like all mommies and daddies go to work. Make it a fact, no question, no options. Just be super positive. If there are any objections, just be matter of fact. Tell her you love her, she will have a great day, and you will pick her up in the afternoon. Leave quickly. NO hesitation on your part. Don't overly explain, reason, etc. 3. 25 kids in a classroom is a LOT. A smaller environment where she can actually get one on one attention from her teachers would definitely help. 4. Lastly, the sibling is definitely a factor. Perhaps she thinks you stay at home with her sibling all day. Make sure you explain where the babies goes. And yes, try to give her one on one time as much as possible. Good luck!
Hi there,
We went through this as well with my son, now almost five years old. I really struggled with it and the guilt I felt was terrible. When he said things like that I would say something to the effect of "I totally understand that feeling and sometimes I don't feel like going to work either and school is important to get to play with friends and read books with our teachers so that we can continue to learn." I think this helped him feel heard and not dismissed. I also created specific times that we would do something fun together after school like go to the park just us or bake cookies, and that seemed to help too. I think it's more about connection and them feeling a loss of connection. It was a struggle when it was happening, but now we've gotten through it so I just want you to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Congrats on the new baby and good luck!
I would give more weight to the new sibling aspect. Our first had a huge regression when our second was born. And it manifested in odd ways. Increased tantrums, acting more like a baby to get mommy's attention, potty regression, etc. I'm sure our kid requested to stay home several times to spend time with mommy (still does). Perhaps your kid's desire to stay home is more because she doen't know how to adjust to sharing mommy and daddy's time with the new sibling. It took our first over a year to get back to "normal". And even 2.5 years later she still struggles sharing mommy and daddy time. Just last week she asked to stay home from school with mommy because her brother had a day off when she didn't. And the fact that her brother got more mommy time isn't fair in her opinion.
I wish you luck! And trust your instincts.