Moving for the Schools
I've read through many recommendations for great areas to live and noticed that all recommendations/questions focus on finding a great elementary school. Do middle and high school not matter as much? Does everyone go to private school? We have been looking for a house to buy in the East Bay and in our price range we find many nice houses zoned for good elementary schools and not-so-good middle or high schools. For example the Redwood Heights neighborhood of Oakland has a highly rated elementary school, but the middle school these students are funneled to, Bret Harte, does not perform well (at least on paper). Having only pre-school aged children, we rely on the ratings/reviews/API scores to give us guidance- knowing that it is only part of the larger picture of future academic success for kids. Is it really about finding the sweet spot of a home zoned for great schools K-12th schools or is there something I'm missing. Any insight/ experience you would have to share would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
When you're looking for a home while your child is still young (in some cases, non-existent), middle and high school are just too far away - both realistically and theoretically. An infinite number of life events can take place by the time your child is ready for middle, so it's easier and more practical to focus on what's coming first. And the schools can change a LOT in either direction by the time your child is ready as well. Bad schools improve, good schools suffer. Politics, budgets, climate, etc.
Having said that, in the Bay Area, many children do go private for middle and/or high school. I'm only speaking from personal experience as an OUSD parent in the Chabot/Claremont/Tech area. I'm sure someone has hard data somewhere. So, to answer your questions: 1) ''Do middle and high school not matter as much?'' - Yes, they do, even more so because by then your child has much more particular needs, skills, interests, issues. But that could mean choosing a charter, moving to another district for public, transferring to another in-district school, getting more involved in their local, or paying for private. and 2) ''Is it really about finding the sweet spot of a home zoned for great schools K-12th schools or is there something I'm missing.'' Some folks have found a 'sweet spot' that works great for their family, but it's rare because frankly, we're not all the same and our kids' needs get more refined.
But what you can do: If you love the house and the elementary school, ease into getting involved in the middle and/or high schools, get to know what's going on, and if you feel compelled, start volunteering and getting things to change. That is how ALL the ''good'' schools got to be so good - by parents getting involved. I see it happening with a few families at Claremont. They see their time and effort as an important investment in their young children's future. And ALL middle schools really suffer a drop off in parent involvement, so your help should be extremely welcome! Mom of Two
Our kids are still in early elementary school too but I think you will find the answer varies widely. Obviously... not ''everyone'' can go to private school! I know some parents who have had their kids just tough it out at a not-so-great middle school, then get a scholarship for private high school. Others with more resources opt to start private school earlier on. And, even some high earning families I know chose Oakland public high schools including Skyline, Oakland Tech, and charter schools. Ultimately it's hard to say before your child starts school, what type of high school will work for your family. That said, we chose our home based on both elementary and middle schools we liked, at least ''on paper'' as you say, figuring high school was too far off to gauge.
I only saw two responses to your original question, so thought I would chime in as well. As one person responded, the answer does vary widely depending on each family's particular situation and needs. When we were originally house-hunting, we were initially looking in Oakland as well. However, after thinking long and hard about it, we knew that we wouldn't be able to swing the cost of private school and did not want to be in the position of perhaps having to move after elementary. As a result, we ended up buying a house in Moraga, which has great public schools all the way through 12th. I grew up in Oakland and attended Oakland public schools all the way through, so this wasn't an easy decision for me. But we have been very happy with our decision, our kids have thrived so far in their elementary and middle school, with high school coming up this year for our oldest. When I think about the cost that other friends are paying for their kids to attend private middle and high schools, I am very happy that we do not have to worry about that, as the costs seem pretty astronomical given our budget. We also have friends who did choose to send their kids to middle school in Oakland and they have been happy as well. So there is no right answer, just what works best for your family. Good luck with your decision and your home search! Happy in Moraga
I think there are many factors - partly that there are many folks who get money from somewhere or someone to cover private school - so they don't worry. Excellent districts - Lamorinda - don't change drastically. Districts that are shaky to begin with may. I think the state of school funding in California is so appaling that just about anything could happen. Except affluent areas (Lamorinda, parts of Walnut Creek, areas of the south bay) will get by - areas of more mixed populations may suffer. We have a child in 2nd and one who has one more year before K - sure, lots could happen but I have no desire to move again so we will be evaluating HS and middle school and it will likey add $50 to $100k to the cost of our house. To me, it is worth it because $25k a year for high school x 2 kids is not going to happen on our income. Thinking ahead
Hi - My family and I are trying to assess whether we should stay in our current home in San Leandro (where our public school is sub- par, and we didn't get the intra-district transfer)and pay for private school, or try to move somewhere (considerably more expensive) where we feel good about sending our two kids to public school. We're somewhat overwhelmed trying to get a handle on all the economic variables, some of which are unknown,at least for now (real estate market fluctuation, property tax, interest deductions, private school tuition, financial aid). Can anyone tell me how they approached this decision? Did you use a financial planner? I realize there's no way to make this decision with total accuracy, but want to gather as much info as possible. I'd really appreciate hearing about others' thought processes, as well as their end results. . . thank you!
In a conundrum
I think if you begin by renting in a town with good schools you will be able to learn about the neighborhoods, the town, all the while your kids would be able to attend the schools. We love it in Orinda, but I grew up in the area so was familiar with Lamorinda (Lafayette, Moraga, Orinda) before we bought. Of course, if you can afford to buy in a place with good schools then by all means buy.
One reason we like it here is because so many residents value education, whether wealthy or not. Lamorinda is beautiful with lots of open space. Most families donate money to the schools which isn't nearly as much as the high cost of private schools.
Hi: I have a spreadsheet I developed for clients considering Piedmont public schools vs. living elsewhere w/ private schools. You can set your own variables for your tax rate, etc. Home prices are based on the average 3/2 in Piedmont and same zip-Oakland in 2004, but can be changed. Of course one has to have the downpayment/credit to make a move, but absent that, the key ''aha'' is that a home purchase is an investment (with eventual return) while private education is an expenditure with no return (other than the educational benefits, of course). I'd note that Piedmont prices, at least, have been flat for more than a year, while private school tuition continues to increase at 7% a year . . . . Maureen
This is a hard one. Basically, (I have been told and now beleive) if you have 2 children, it makes economic ''sense'' to move to where the schools are ''better'', when you consider the increased home prices and property taxes (with the assumption that your children would be in private schools in San Leandro).
You have to figure you'll need to pay about (gasp!) $700,000- $1,000,000 + in areas where the public schools are considered ''good''. But dont forget to factor in all of the equity you have in your current home, yet to sell. We purchased our first home in Lamorinda because I wanted my children to attend public schools. We couldn't be happier with how it is going. We still have to make small contributions to the PTA, to the classroom and give our time, but parents generally do enthusiastically, so it works out well for everyone. We have attended private school and I must say that I appreciate the economic and ethnic diversity that you find in public school. Also consider that when you attend your neighborhood public school, your child will form friendships with children who live within walking distance of your home. Families that attend private schools commute from different cities/further distances. That affects their availability for (and ease of) playdates and their availability to participate with your children in organized activities such as team sports and cub scouts.
And when looking at private school tuition, I would factor in that your school will likely depend greatly on family monetary donations and support. Perhaps several thousand dollars annually...
We made the move and we are so happy to be here. It is nice to know that private schools in the area are a second option for us if the public schools don't end up working out for us. Best to you in your decision.
I'm looking for suggestions on areas to move our kids that have great schools. I welcome information about Lamorinda, Walnut Creek, San Ramon and Castro Valley. I have read the discussions on the parents network about about san ramon, CV and San leandro, didn't see much about Lamorinda. Oakland is still a possibility and we're in the Kaiser elem school district, any comments about Kaiser elementary school? I haven't heard much and the school scores are a bit low. Jennifer
I don't know if it's the solution for you, but moving to Lafayette was the best thing we did. We were living in the N. Oakland Hills and were in the Kaiser district. I don't know anything about that school but wasn't thrilled with the prospect of Oakland schools in general (not an educated opinion I admit) or Oakland Tech. We ended up in Lafayette for it's schools, for their arts and science foundation and the community. Our son is now in 2nd grade at the downtown school, Lafayette elementary and started there with kindergarten. Our second son is in preschool still. The teachers, principal and support staff are amazing, very hands-on and concerned and knows every family by face and name. The foundation LASF is funded by contributions from families and community to the tune of $750k - 1mm a year. It supplies additional music, art and science programs to the 4 elementary, 1 middle and 1 high schools. There is a meeting tonight about the school budgets and what we can do to lessen the impact. Most parents I've spoken with are going. Finally the community is totally family oriented. You can go anywhere with your kids without people looking funny at you and can get whatever services and activities you can dream of. We were ones that said we never would go over the hill, but are very happy about it now. Life is much easier where we are. Linda
Moving to the suburbs is NEVER the answer - to any question! That said, I can commiserate with you over the mixed quality of the Oakland School district. However, many in our neighborhood have been working hard with the local elementary school (Glenview, Oakland) - becoming involved in many ways on a grass roots level - and the school has improved as a result (in state scores, as well as in the opinions of folks in the area!) So, please stay in the city and attempt to work with the people in your neighborhood and with the school itself - you can affect change! Don't join the rest of the country and abandon our wonderful cities - they get better when people stay and want them to improve. (Sorry to rant - but this is my particular soap box topic!) A City Mama
I say no, it's not always the right answer to move to the suburbs. My husband and I choose live in Oakland, with our toddler. My parents moved to Lamorinda when I was 9 (from the other side of the tunnel) for the schools, and we agree it was one of the worst things we did.
On the positive side, the area is beautiful and ''safe'', etc. Also, it's true that there is alot of parent involvement in the schools. So much so, that friends of mine who teach in Lamorinda complain that the parents are over-involved (aka over-bearing). And, there is a lot of pressure for each family to contribute to the ''foundation'' (I think the going rate is at least 1000$/yr). I bet Oakland schools would be better, if there was a community foundation to support them!
On the negative side, the schools are almost like a factory to get kids into the UC system when they graduate (kids are pressured to take certain UC-favored courses in high school at the expense of other classes and interests).
While I can't speak yet as to the quality of the public schools, I just wanted to put in a good word for Walnut Creek as a family-oriented community. We moved here from SF 7 years ago and I was not sure we were making the right decision, but we really grew to like Walnut Creek so much. It's so nice having Mt. Diablo right here. There are kids everywhere, lots of great parks here and near to here. From what I understand the public schools are better in Lafayette, but it's much more expensive to live in Lafayette (not that it's inexpensive in Walnut Creek, as I can attest now that we are looking to buy a bigger house!). We like downtown Walnut Creek - can't beat the shopping! And there are plenty of good, non-chain restaurants here as well. Our daughter will be attending a private elementary school in Lafayette, but will switch to public school when she hits middle school. We expect to remain in Walnut Creek (or Lamorinda) through her high school years. LB
Socially it's a very tough place in so many ways. Money and wealth is a huge issue that kids get judged on-- from the cars they drive to the clothes they wear and where they go during ski week. I still maintain friendships with friends from high school, and I was friendly with lots of different groups. However, when a girl murders another girl because of a popularity quest (this happended in the 80's to my classmate), then I'd say the community as a whole has issues.
If people stopped moving ''because of the schools'', and worked as hard as the Lamorinda parents (many of whom were living in Oakland and Berkeley and miss the city!) to improve what we have here in Oakland/Berkeley, I bet we could all make a huge difference AND like where we live! (As a previous person wrote, sory to get rant, but this is also something that I think is really important!) --Another City Mama